Rabu, 3 Oktober 2012

Perbualan Iscador


 

Rasanya Perbualan ini bagus... http://www.cancerforums.net/threads/7147-Iscador-questions

1.   Iscador questions


Has anyone had experience using iscador as a complimentary treatment for cancer -- in particular brain tumors? I have heard from family members that iscador is commonly used for cancer treatment. Does any one have information about it and if it is used for brain tumors?
Thank you

 

Hi - It is used to assist in treatments for brain tumours. This site gives information which may help:

http://www.cancure.org/iscador_mistletoe.htm

I would advise extensive research into its use before taking any decisions. Vee Smith

Hi This is from the cancer institute (www.cancer.org). At present, there is insufficient evidence to recommend the use of mistletoe as a treatment for cancer outside the context of well-designed clinical trials. Such trials will be valuable to determine more clearly whether mistletoe can be useful in the treatment of specific subsets of cancer patients.

As a treatment it doesn't have a lot going for it. I would save your money and don't buy it.. unless of course it passes trials and becomes a treatment which I think is highly unlikely. There maybe an active ingredient in the mistletoe that will one day be a new anti cancer drug, but that day is a long way off, if it will happen at all. Cheers Chemoman

Age 55
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission reconfirmed 1st October 2008
Remission reconfirmed 17th June 2009
Remission reconfirmed 7th June 2010
Remission reconfirmed 6th July 2011
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... NEVER GIVE UP
RULE NUMBER 3..... Don't forget the first 2 rules

I may not have gone where I intended to go,
but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Jim
Long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendroglioma grade 3, same location.
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2405
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2528
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 3: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029

Chemo man, On this I disagree with you. I have been in remission for 7 years.I took Iscador. As a homeopathic medicine it is very inexpensive. I did not have chemo. I used *alternative medicines* extensively. I know of a number of people who are being treated with Iscador.Personally I think that allopathic medicine has not got much to offer when compared to homeopathic medicine. Allopathic costs a great deal more than plants that grow in the ground! I feel a bit annoyed when I read that the remedies that have helped me stay cancer free, after an aggressive astrocytoma almost killed me, have no benefits...? Feather

This kind of reply is always a concern. Homoeopathic remedies are extremely highly refined and to claim that straight plant/herbal remedies work is naive. Many are very dangerous unless prescribed through a qualified and experienced practitioner, and in any way to encourage the ill person to take production of their herbal remedies into their own hands is thoroughly dangerous. Many allopathic drugs are derived from plants so taking the line of total exclusion lacks logic. You may well have survived 7 years with only this treatment. You are one anecdote. Many others have not survived on the same treatment. I agree with ChemoMan - until proper evidence is achieved, any herbal treatment should be regarded with great caution. Some of us have survived as long or longer through using allopathic drugs.  Vee Smith

Hi again, Homeopathic remedies are not illegal.There are plenty of qualified homeopaths to prescribe. The problem is, if this remedy was clinically tested, which it wont be because theres a LOT more money to be made from allopathics, we would have concrete findings, upon which we can base our own decisions, rather than *anecdotal evidence*.
Homeopathic remedies are certainly NOT dangerous. I refute that utterly..its another myth perpetrated by pharmaceutical industry. I declined chemo and radiation. I had some remaining tumour after surgery. I have had 7 great years-and I certainly believe Iscador played a big role in that. I'm not sure why theres a complementary medicine section here when so many seem to be prejudiced against it. In 1982 I had a kidney tumour too- That was treated ONLY by homeopathics-no recurrence, and as of latest scan the pre existing scar on my kidney has also gone-THANKS to homeopathy. This is true-I can support my claims.  Virtually all the meds I was given by my surgeon/neuro etc made me very ill.Homeopathy can do no harm, when used in accordance with a professional.
I ask people to keep an open mind. Feather

1.   Hi

I will let Patrick Swayze say it for me

"If anybody had that cure out there, like so many people swear they do, you'd be two things. You'd be very rich, and you'd be very famous. Otherwise, shut up."

Its easy to get peer review on your work.........to claim there is some dark plot against getting drugs approved is just conspiratorial rubbish.

If I had relied on Homeopathic remedies I would be dead by now, no ifs no buts. No amount of anecdotes will convince me otherwise.

Age 55
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission reconfirmed 1st October 2008
Remission reconfirmed 17th June 2009
Remission reconfirmed 7th June 2010
Remission reconfirmed 6th July 2011
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... NEVER GIVE UP
RULE NUMBER 3..... Don't forget the first 2 rules

I may not have gone where I intended to go,
but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Its good to see this forum is an open minded democratic place where each member's experience is valued.....
Patrick Swayze DIED. Maybe he should have tried the alternative therapies instead of showing his arrogance and ignorance. BTW I also did the Gawler program too...I recommend it.
I am one of the longer term survivors of brain cancer-I intend to be the longest .....But I will accept full responsibility for my own wellness rather than hand it over to the legally acceptable druglords who tried to force me to have chemo...7 years ago. I definitely made the right decision for me. I think we all have a responsibility to make our own decisions.
If you live in the USA and aren't insured you may not have the option of conventional treatment. If my post gives hope to people in THAT category then I haven't wasted my time.
Feather

1.   Hi
Patrick Swayze defied all odds and lasted a lot longer than anyone, including his doctors, guessed he would. He made the tough choices and fought the good fight and had an outcome which was unexpected in that he lived so long with the most dangerous of all cancers, he even managed to work while going through chemo.

Ian Gawler had trad medicine including his alternative treatments., he left nothing to chance. I respect his philosophy but never forget he had a lot of trad medicine.

We all die Feather, as Death conquers all....... death is not a failure but the natural consequence of life.

Age 55
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission reconfirmed 1st October 2008
Remission reconfirmed 17th June 2009
Remission reconfirmed 7th June 2010
Remission reconfirmed 6th July 2011
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... NEVER GIVE UP
RULE NUMBER 3..... Don't forget the first 2 rules

I may not have gone where I intended to go,
but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Chemo man-Patrick swayze chain smoked until his death so you can hardly claim he was doing the best for his survival. Of course when you use homeopathics you can't smoke or drink alcohol.Maybe that's why swazye rejected it.

I think Gawler's reputation is pretty well established..Regardless of his background, he now is devoted to alternative therapies. Plenty of testimonials available from his clients too!
Chemo maybe worked for you. It didnt work for my best friend.It certainly doesnt work for or cure everybody and until that's the case there's room for other considerations. My own surgeon sanctioned the homeopathic option btw so at least in my country the jury's still out.
Actually-I've now read most posts in this Board-complementary medicines...It seems you are opposed to pretty well all of them here so why have this Board? It gives the impression that you are open to ideas that you obviously are not.
Yes everyone dies.Dunno why you brought that up really-I wasn't contesting that...
7 year survivor-no chemo /no radiation /one good homeopath. Feather

 

Hi feather

Your opinion was not censored in any way so why claim that your opinion is not valued?

I do not attack all CAM modalities. I do attack people that advise others to turn their back on proven medicines that work in favour of products that have no evidence of efficacy. I also attack people that come here and advocate dangerous products that can harm.

I do not own this board and I have no say at all in what forums are put in it.

Your opinion is just an opinion as is mine and my opinions do NOT reflect those of the owners or all users of this forum, so do not claim this to be the case.

You emphasied that Patrick died not me and your implication was his death was a failure....otherwise why capitalise DIED. I make no moral decisions on how he lived his life each to his or her own I say. Regardless of his personal habits he survived a lot longer than most do, a testament to evidence based medicine.

What you need to realise is that when you attack evidence based medicine you are in fact attacking all of us that have chosen this as our path and you are attacking all the loved ones of those with cancer who were given precious extra time and you will not attack me or our people without myself and others coming to a defensive position.

I have a very aggressive cancer that 40 years ago was a death sentence. Thanks to evidence based medicine 90% of people with my cancer are still alive after 2 years and it is now considered CURABLE ! Whether I live or die from it is of no consequence, what is, is the fact that 60% of people with DLBCL will be cured of this killer cancer. Sounds like it works to me .

The internet is full of sites that cater to your way of thinking in fact they outnumber boards like this many times over. If you want to attack evidence based medicine without an argument then go to one of them, they are certainly not hard to find, but for Petes sake don't come here and attack us without expecting a robust debate.

Do you want to read a good story one that gives credence to evidence based medicine? if so go here:
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2405

Good luck Chemoman

 

 

1.   Chemo-Man
You Said:

I do not attack all CAM modalities. I do attack people that advise others to turn their back on proven medicines that work in favour of products that have no evidence of efficacy.
As far as I'm concerned, evidence of efficacy is in the fact that I am here, well and cancer free.
I also attack people that come here and advocate dangerous products that can harm.
Are you seriously claiming that homeopathics can *do harm*???Wheres your evidence of that?

[
i]I do not own this board and I have no say at all in what forums are put in it. [/i]
By consistently posting negative replies in the complementary medicine Board you are undermining the free speech component of this board.
I was pretty sure when I posted that you'd express the opinions you have. If you don't agree with Complementary medicines, why just keep posting negative replies (I'd already read your Swayze quote in another post-IMO he's not exactly a good example, as I've said.)
[i]Your opinion is just an opinion as is mine and my opinions do NOT reflect those of the owners or all users of this forum, so do not claim this to be the case.
However, I can substantiate my opinion here as its based on my own experience.I just don't understand why you continue to post the same negative comments in this particular Board> Do you feel you have a responsibility to promote trad. med because it *worked for you?*.
You emphasied that Patrick died not me and your implication was his death was a failure....otherwise why capitalise DIED. I make no moral decisions on how he lived his life each to his or her own I say. Regardless of his personal habits he survived a lot longer than most do, a testament to evidence based medicine.
I wonder how much money he spent prolonging his life? What about those who don't have recourse to that sort of money? What about those with no insurance? Would you say to them *don't bother trying anything-if you don't have chemo you're a goner*..?

[
i]What you need to realise is that when you attack evidence based medicine you are in fact attacking all of us that have chosen this as our path and you are attacking all the loved ones of those with cancer who were given precious extra time and you will not attack me or our people without myself and others coming to a defensive position. [/i]
'

Where did I *attack "evidence-based* medicine?
If you feel attacked because I have used (successfully) a different healing modality to the one you chose, then I can't see how that's *my issue*?
I could say the same thing! -ie that you are attacking me for sharing (or attempting to!) information that has helped me, and about which you seem to have very little knowledge and no interest in.

[
i]I have a very aggressive cancer that 40 years ago was a death sentence.[/i]
So did I.
Thanks to evidence based medicine 90% of people with my cancer are still alive after 2 years and it is now considered CURABLE ! Whether I live or die from it is of no consequence, what is, is the fact that 60% of people with DLBCL will be cured of this killer cancer. Sounds like it works to me
If it has worked for you I'm very glad-genuinely..It doesn't work for everyone though, does it? So why would you deny those who can't be helped by *evidence-based medicine* or who can't afford it, the possibility of being helped by *other methods*? You have consistently referred to alternative practioners (in other threads) as being akin to charletons!

[
i]The internet is full of sites that cater to your way of thinking in fact they outnumber boards like this many times over. If you want to attack evidence based medicine without an argument then go to one of them, they are certainly not hard to find, but for Petes sake don't come here and attack us without expecting a robust debate[/i].
'

Oh I'm happy to have a robust debate chemo man-especially on this topic.
The thing is I did not attack trad med! I merely outlined an alternative treatment that worked for me.I commented on the exorbitant COST of trad med-yes-homeopathy is so VERY inexpensive when you compare the two.There are plenty of poor people with brain cancer who can't AFFORD chemo or radiation or specialist's visits...My advice can help them.It can give them hope. Read Louisa Hay, read Petrea's (King) story of survival-she cured her cancer with alternative meds and that's a proven evidence-based fact.(*Quest for Life*)

Telling me I should find another forum because I've expressed an opinion that differs from yours is quite astonishing!But I'm going to take your advice.
Do you want to read a good story one that gives credence to evidence based medicine? if so go here:
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2405

Yep-I'd already read it. *If* my cancer returns I'll take it on Board-but so far every scan has actually shown improvement in the situation for me! I never in any post attempted to *discredit* Trad med. I merely offered alternatives. Clearly you have a problem with my engaging in a discussion about my experience, because it flies in the face of yours.
Don't worry. I give up. Feather.

Hi feather

Really ??? you are taking your bat and ball and going home??? Strange since you chose this debate by replying to a post I made 6 MONTHS AGO

How about we make a deal: you post whatever you want here in your own thread.... and I will leave you alone providing you are not promoting anything that will directly harm people...so far you have not done that so you can relax there. If you note I have made no comments to anything you have posted elsewhere on the forums, and that is the way it should be. If you want a debate continue here in this thread and I will give you one.

I do wish you would stay. Don't let a silly disagreement scare you off.

This is just a ride, life that is, enjoy and participate.

Cheers Chemoman

 

 

1.   Really ??? you are taking your bat and ball and going home???



Yep.

Strange since you chose this debate by replying to a post I made 6 MONTHS AGO


It took me a while to feel at home here enough to try to share my story,with the original poster who asked about it.


I do wish you would stay. Don't let a silly disagreement scare you off.

I'm not *scared* off....

This is just a ride, life that is, enjoy and participate
Yeah that's what I was doing, but being belittled here has changed that somewhat.At least the oncologist who recommended the chemo and with whom I had to argue, had the decency to admit *we (doctors) don't know everything*.
BTW, homeopathy is being used increasingly to treat the problems caused by chemo.The Oncologist told me that.
Stay well.
Feather

1.   Originally Posted by feather

Hi again,
Homeopathic remedies are not illegal.There are plenty of qualified homeopaths to prescribe. The problem is, if this remedy was clinically tested, which it wont be because theres a LOT more money to be made from allopathics, we would have concrete findings, upon which we can base our own decisions, rather than *anecdotal evidence*.
Homeopathic remedies are certainly NOT dangerous. I refute that utterly..its another myth perpetrated by pharmaceutical industry.
I declined chemo and radiation. I had some remaining tumour after surgery. I have had 7 great years-and I certainly believe Iscador played a big role in that.
I'm not sure why theres a complementary medicine section here when so many seem to be prejudiced against it.
In 1982 I had a kidney tumour too- That was treated ONLY by homeopathics-no recurrence, and as of latest scan the pre existing scar on my kidney has also gone-THANKS to homeopathy.
This is true-I can support my claims.
Virtually all the meds I was given by my surgeon/neuro etc made me very ill.Homeopathy can do no harm, when used in accordance with a professional.
I ask people to keep an open mind.
Feather


I never said that homoeopathy was illegal - indeed it is certainly not. But the substances used are highly refined forms of drug and their use does need a well-trained practitioner. Th best defence for the treatments is that their use on animals is often beneficial and cannot be due to a preconception on the part of the subject being treated.

At the end of the day, one person's experience can only be regarded as anecdotal and unprovable. And many will prefer to go with long tested and proven allopathic remedies despite the possible side effects. That is their prerogative and their decision, as much as your decision to remain with homoeopathy.

Open minds are great, providing that they do not become flooded. Vee Smith

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